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	<title>Comments on: Are Hybrids Good for the Environment?</title>
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	<description>Your daily dose of Economics</description>
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		<title>By: Did You Buy Carbon Offsets for that Prius? &#124; Stuck In Traffic</title>
		<link>http://dumbagent.com/are-hybrids-good-for-the-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-11204</link>
		<dc:creator>Did You Buy Carbon Offsets for that Prius? &#124; Stuck In Traffic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2011 23:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbagent.com/?p=1829#comment-11204</guid>
		<description>[...] Your mileage may vary of course. But I find it difficult to argue with the basic logic.  The good folks at The Dumb Agent blog have created a spreadsheet you can use to do your own comparisons. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Your mileage may vary of course. But I find it difficult to argue with the basic logic.  The good folks at The Dumb Agent blog have created a spreadsheet you can use to do your own comparisons. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: 2010&#8217;s most popular &#124; DumbAgent.com</title>
		<link>http://dumbagent.com/are-hybrids-good-for-the-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-7240</link>
		<dc:creator>2010&#8217;s most popular &#124; DumbAgent.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbagent.com/?p=1829#comment-7240</guid>
		<description>[...] the article with our Hybrid cost calculator was not first, even though it was linked to from Tyler Cowen&#8217;s blog. Just for the record, our [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the article with our Hybrid cost calculator was not first, even though it was linked to from Tyler Cowen&#8217;s blog. Just for the record, our [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Why your Hybrids won&#8217;t make any difference &#124; DumbAgent.com</title>
		<link>http://dumbagent.com/are-hybrids-good-for-the-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-6329</link>
		<dc:creator>Why your Hybrids won&#8217;t make any difference &#124; DumbAgent.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbagent.com/?p=1829#comment-6329</guid>
		<description>[...] s1.parentNode.insertBefore(s, s1); })(); TweetShareEmailNo, this isn&#8217;t referring back to our Eco-friendliness of Hybrids article, but to why, even assuming you did your homework and your hybrid consumes fewer [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] s1.parentNode.insertBefore(s, s1); })(); TweetShareEmailNo, this isn&#8217;t referring back to our Eco-friendliness of Hybrids article, but to why, even assuming you did your homework and your hybrid consumes fewer [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bra för miljön att byta bil? &#171; Nonicoclolasos</title>
		<link>http://dumbagent.com/are-hybrids-good-for-the-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-5908</link>
		<dc:creator>Bra för miljön att byta bil? &#171; Nonicoclolasos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbagent.com/?p=1829#comment-5908</guid>
		<description>[...] lämna en kommentar &#187;  Antag att du ska köpa en bil och bryr dig om miljön. Ska du köpa en ny hybridbil eller en begagnad bil? Fördelen med en ny hybridbil är att den är mer bränslesnål. Nackdelen är att det går åt mycket energi att tillverka den. Slutsats: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] lämna en kommentar &raquo;  Antag att du ska köpa en bil och bryr dig om miljön. Ska du köpa en ny hybridbil eller en begagnad bil? Fördelen med en ny hybridbil är att den är mer bränslesnål. Nackdelen är att det går åt mycket energi att tillverka den. Slutsats: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Ho</title>
		<link>http://dumbagent.com/are-hybrids-good-for-the-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-5898</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Ho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 03:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbagent.com/?p=1829#comment-5898</guid>
		<description>&quot;the alternative for the last driver might be to stick with a bus pass, or buy a bicycle or moped, since the others will likely be able to outbid him&quot;

That&#039;s a very good point. That is quite true. Though probably unlikely. By putting your money into the used car market, you are effectively raising overall demand for used cars, putting more money in that system, so unlikely for someone in this market to switch to something cheaper (like a bus), more likely they will switch to something more expensive, like a new car. But a fair point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the alternative for the last driver might be to stick with a bus pass, or buy a bicycle or moped, since the others will likely be able to outbid him&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a very good point. That is quite true. Though probably unlikely. By putting your money into the used car market, you are effectively raising overall demand for used cars, putting more money in that system, so unlikely for someone in this market to switch to something cheaper (like a bus), more likely they will switch to something more expensive, like a new car. But a fair point.</p>
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		<title>By: Micah</title>
		<link>http://dumbagent.com/are-hybrids-good-for-the-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-5897</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 17:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbagent.com/?p=1829#comment-5897</guid>
		<description>The only benefit in buying a used car vs a new car (in the scenario here) is a short-term, personal benefit.  

If the goal is to save my money and reduce my carbon footprint, it works... in the short term.

If the goal is for me to be a consumer with a conscious for the broader market, I should probably purchase a new fuel efficient car and suggest all my acquaintances do the same.

One person&#039;s carbon consumption is negligible, just like one person&#039;s vote or political influence, but when the market changes preferences you see large effects.  (Obama? Change?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only benefit in buying a used car vs a new car (in the scenario here) is a short-term, personal benefit.  </p>
<p>If the goal is to save my money and reduce my carbon footprint, it works&#8230; in the short term.</p>
<p>If the goal is for me to be a consumer with a conscious for the broader market, I should probably purchase a new fuel efficient car and suggest all my acquaintances do the same.</p>
<p>One person&#8217;s carbon consumption is negligible, just like one person&#8217;s vote or political influence, but when the market changes preferences you see large effects.  (Obama? Change?)</p>
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		<title>By: Ocean</title>
		<link>http://dumbagent.com/are-hybrids-good-for-the-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-5895</link>
		<dc:creator>Ocean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 14:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbagent.com/?p=1829#comment-5895</guid>
		<description>Ben: Right, I see what you mean now. Although I&#039;m not entirely convinced of it yet. If, by buying a &#039;98 Tercel, you deprive someone else of buying it, they will switch to another used car, which will start the chain reaction you mentioned, but it will likely be with cheaper and cheaper cars. So if there are 999,999 used cars for 1,000,000 drivers, the alternative for the last driver might be to stick with a bus pass, or buy a bicycle or moped, since the others will likely be able to outbid him. 

Micah: a &#039;98 Tercel might not be fuel friendly at all, but its production has already been accounted for. You&#039;re right that it probably won&#039;t last 130,000 miles, but might trading it in for a &#039;99 Tercel (and probably a &#039;00 Tercel later) still be more beneficial than switching to a Hybrid? 

Having said that, it&#039;s an interesting point that new cars might end up being less fuel friendly as a consequence. Yet another factor for the ever-complicating equation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben: Right, I see what you mean now. Although I&#8217;m not entirely convinced of it yet. If, by buying a &#8217;98 Tercel, you deprive someone else of buying it, they will switch to another used car, which will start the chain reaction you mentioned, but it will likely be with cheaper and cheaper cars. So if there are 999,999 used cars for 1,000,000 drivers, the alternative for the last driver might be to stick with a bus pass, or buy a bicycle or moped, since the others will likely be able to outbid him. </p>
<p>Micah: a &#8217;98 Tercel might not be fuel friendly at all, but its production has already been accounted for. You&#8217;re right that it probably won&#8217;t last 130,000 miles, but might trading it in for a &#8217;99 Tercel (and probably a &#8217;00 Tercel later) still be more beneficial than switching to a Hybrid? </p>
<p>Having said that, it&#8217;s an interesting point that new cars might end up being less fuel friendly as a consequence. Yet another factor for the ever-complicating equation.</p>
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		<title>By: Micah</title>
		<link>http://dumbagent.com/are-hybrids-good-for-the-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-5894</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 17:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbagent.com/?p=1829#comment-5894</guid>
		<description>I want to clarify and condense my previous comments with a tighter statement:

Fuel friendly used cars only exist become someone previously purchased a fuel-friendly new car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to clarify and condense my previous comments with a tighter statement:</p>
<p>Fuel friendly used cars only exist become someone previously purchased a fuel-friendly new car.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Micah</title>
		<link>http://dumbagent.com/are-hybrids-good-for-the-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-5893</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 17:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbagent.com/?p=1829#comment-5893</guid>
		<description>Has anyone mentioned that used cars do not have an indefinite lifespan?  What portion of &#039;98 Tercels still in operation can sustain 130,000 more miles?  Is the EPA mpg estimate (or any other value of fuel economy) a production value that we can assume is constant, or should we presume that a &#039;98 Tercel which produced 35 mpg when new will produce less than 35 mpg now?  

There are probably some other valid considerations, like the demographic differences between new and used car purchasers.  

It&#039;s worth noting (again) that the used car market consists of the surviving new cars from a previous period.  A more efficient mechanism to increase the fuel economy of all cars may be to increase the consumption of economically friendly new cars.

Say, for instance, that fuel conscious buyers heed the advice above and only purchase used cars.  New cars will be left to be purchased by the less fuel conscious consumers.  Market demand for new cars will drift away from the fuel friendly and the market for used cars will likewise follow. 

I think that for the fuel conscious consumer to purchase a used car instead of a new hybrid, that consumer may be inadvertently pushing the market in the direction opposite their intention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone mentioned that used cars do not have an indefinite lifespan?  What portion of &#8217;98 Tercels still in operation can sustain 130,000 more miles?  Is the EPA mpg estimate (or any other value of fuel economy) a production value that we can assume is constant, or should we presume that a &#8217;98 Tercel which produced 35 mpg when new will produce less than 35 mpg now?  </p>
<p>There are probably some other valid considerations, like the demographic differences between new and used car purchasers.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s worth noting (again) that the used car market consists of the surviving new cars from a previous period.  A more efficient mechanism to increase the fuel economy of all cars may be to increase the consumption of economically friendly new cars.</p>
<p>Say, for instance, that fuel conscious buyers heed the advice above and only purchase used cars.  New cars will be left to be purchased by the less fuel conscious consumers.  Market demand for new cars will drift away from the fuel friendly and the market for used cars will likewise follow. </p>
<p>I think that for the fuel conscious consumer to purchase a used car instead of a new hybrid, that consumer may be inadvertently pushing the market in the direction opposite their intention.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Ho</title>
		<link>http://dumbagent.com/are-hybrids-good-for-the-environment/comment-page-1/#comment-5888</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Ho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dumbagent.com/?p=1829#comment-5888</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah, I agree that more assumptions leads to more noise. So you are right, it may be pointless.

But to clarify, it is important to acknowledge that by switching from a new car to a used car, you essentially force somebody out there to switch from a used car to a new car.

Let&#039;s say there are 1,000,000 used cars out there with 1,000,000 used car drivers. If you buy one of them, you deprive somebody else of their car. If you buy one of them, there are now only 999,999 used cars for 1,000,000 drivers. So you have forced one of them to buy a new car.

That is the first order effect. There is a 2nd order effect if you cause used cars to get utilized more. But the size of that effect is ambiguous and probably small.

Which means, I think yours (and Wired&#039;s) calculation don&#039;t make sense. Buying a used Tercel still induces some other new car to be produced, and you have to account for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah, I agree that more assumptions leads to more noise. So you are right, it may be pointless.</p>
<p>But to clarify, it is important to acknowledge that by switching from a new car to a used car, you essentially force somebody out there to switch from a used car to a new car.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say there are 1,000,000 used cars out there with 1,000,000 used car drivers. If you buy one of them, you deprive somebody else of their car. If you buy one of them, there are now only 999,999 used cars for 1,000,000 drivers. So you have forced one of them to buy a new car.</p>
<p>That is the first order effect. There is a 2nd order effect if you cause used cars to get utilized more. But the size of that effect is ambiguous and probably small.</p>
<p>Which means, I think yours (and Wired&#8217;s) calculation don&#8217;t make sense. Buying a used Tercel still induces some other new car to be produced, and you have to account for that.</p>
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